Trinity problems- Who is the Holy Spirit?

"The Bible affirms very clearly that Jesus ans HIS Father are the Spirit.

In Trinitarian doctrine Jesus is not the Holy Spirit since the Holy Spirit is a separate third person in Trinitarian doctrine. One cannot say that Jesus is the Holy Spirit since that would be saying one person is indeed also another person. However, the Bible clearly affirms the risen Lord Jesus ISthe Spirit at 2 Corinthians 3:17.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted because the veil is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but when a person turns to the Lord the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. (2 Corinthians 3:14-4:5).

Now it is quite obvious to the unbiased reader that the Lord of this passage is Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul is telling us that Christ IS the Spirit. However, since Trinitarians perceive this passage destroys the doctrine of the Trinity, an interpretive contrivance is in order. One contrivance is to pretend "the Spirit" at 2 Corinthians 3:17 is not a reference to their third hypostasis, the Holy Spirit, but a term to refer to a substance, a what, "spirit". However, the honest person will quickly see that Paul has been discussing the superiority of the ministry of the Spirit over the Law.

....written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God... God, who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in the letter but inthe Spirit for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Since the Spirit is understood to be a 3rd person in Trinitarian doctrine, the Trinitarian is caught in an inescapable dilemma of having Person A as Person B but Trinitarian doctrine claiming Person A is not Person B. Hence, they perceive a need to contrive.

When it is realize the above contrivance will not work for them, another contrivance pulled out of the hat is to suggest that "the Lord" of this passage is not Jesus but some other identity such as the Father. However, this will not work either. In Trinitarian doctrine, the Father is not the Spirit either. If we were to identify the Lord as the Father, the Trinitarian would then be caught saying the Father is the person who is the person of the Spirit and he cannot say this without contradicting his own doctrine. In his doctrine the Father is NOT the Spirit. If we were to identify "the Lord" as the Triune God then they would be caught in saying the Triune God is the person who is the Spirit and he cannot say this either without contradicting his own doctrine. No matter how the Trinitarian identifies the Lord he is caught in his own snare.

Secondly, the Lord is indeed clearly identified in the immediate context. Paul opens his letter with two references to the "Lord Jesus Christ." "The Lord" is the standard way for Paul to refer to the risen Jesus and this passage is no different. We see in this passage that the veil is removed "in Christ" and only when one turns to "the Lord" is it taken away. Reasonable people will see that "turning to the Lord" and having the veil taken away is the same idea as having the veil "removed in Christ." The Lord who is the Spirit is Jesus Christ.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

And even further to the point, Paul says we are being transformed into the same image from glory until glory. This is the same typical Pauline language for being free in Christ being conformed into the image of Christ that Paul uses elsewhere in his writings:

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us... the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.... For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son. so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.(Romans 8:29-30; cf. Gal 4:29-5:1; Php 3:10-11; 1 Cor 15:49).

When we look at the obvious evidence of the immediate context we can see plainly that "the Lord" of this passage is no one else but the Son of God and Paul identifies the Son of God as "the Spirit" in direct opposition to Trinitarian doctrine which claims "the Son is not the Spirit" and there is absolutely no way out of the dilemma here for the Trinitarian but a good dose of denial.

At 1 Corinthians 15:45, Paul refers to the risen Jesus as being raised "life-giving Spirit." Paul has the very same thing in mind here in 2 Corinthians. And just as he talks about the glorification of the body in 1 Corinthians 15, he has the same thing in mind here when he is referring to the glory of Jesus in believers. The risen Jesus IS the Spirit.

In the preceding context, Paul discusses the ministry of the Spirit. Trinitarians otherwise insist "the Spirit" in this passage is the 3rd person of his Triune God. But when the doctrine of the Trinity is in view and he must deal with the words of 2 Corinthians 3:17, he changes his mind for the occasion. He is caught in the inescapable dilemma of Jesus being identifed as the Spirit, that is, the dilemma of the 2nd person of his Trinity being identifed as the 3rd. But in Trinitarian doctrine the 2nd person is NOT the 3rd and he ends up with a contradiction diametrically opposed to his doctrine."


The Bible affirms very clearly that our Father IS the Spirit.

Did the Father of the man Jesus of Nazareth conceive Jesus in the womb of Mary? In Trinitarianism the answer is that he did not. In Trinitarian doctrine, another person altogether conceived the man Jesus of Nazareth and that person is the Holy Spirit, someone who is not the Father in Trinitarianism. In other words, Trinitarians are caught in the serious dilemma of having one person conceiving baby Jesus (the Holy Spirit) but another person being his father (God, the Father of Jesus). It is an absurdity of absurdities.

The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:35).

The honest reader can see that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father who conceived baby Jesus of Nazareth and not a 3rd and separate person who is not the Father. In Trinitarianism, the Holy Spirit is not the Father and they create for themselves here the ridiculous predicament of having one person conceive baby Jesus but Jesus having another person altogether as his father. Absurd.

Another clear indication that the Father is the Holy Spirit are parallel statements made by Matthew and Luke:

When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say." (Luke 12:11-12).

But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. (Matthew 10:17-20).

The term "Spirit of God" is obviously a term which means "Spirit of God the Father." However, in Trinitarian doctrine, "the Spirit" is not the Spirit of the Father but a 3rd person in addition to the Father and so they must conclude and do conclude that, "the Father is NOT the Spirit." But we have clear Scriptures which show the Father is the Spirit. And again the Trinitarian doctrine is easily proven wrong.

Even further is Jesus' teaching at John 4:24, "God is Spirit." That Jesus is referring to the Father is made plain by the context. And that Jesus is referring to the Holy Spirit is also made plain by the context.

When He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. John 16:13.

Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and Truth, for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in in Spirit and Truth." John 4:22-24.

It is plain to the honest mind that "God" is the Father in the phrase "God is Spirit" and it is equally plain that "Spirit" is the Holy Spirit. But in Trinitarian doctrine, God the Father is most definitely NOT the Holy Spirit. Scriptures proves them wrong.

Of course, multitudes of denials are always in order when such things are presented to the Trinitarian. And of course this brings up the issue of how both Jesus and the Father can be "the Spirit." But anyone who comprehends the nature of the resurrection can quickly see how this is so. his will be clearly elucidated in another article. "Father" and "Son" are WHO they are; "Spirit" is WHAT they both are; the risenJesus and the Father are both "the Spirit." In the same way that both Adam and Eve are both "the flesh" and the one flesh of Adam, both God the Father and his Son are now one Spirit of God. The flesh of Eve is the flesh of Adam and the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God. And just as Eve is the flesh of Adam but is not Adam so also Christ is the Spirit of God but is not God. The Spirit in us is the presence of both the Father and Jesus which is why Jesus taught that both Father and Son will come to make their home in believers. God the father IS Spirit and so now also is the risen Jesus.

The Bible plainly shows the Trinity doctrine to be completely wrong. In Trinitarianism the Spirit and the Father or the Spirit and the Son cannot be one and the same. The Bible says the Son of God IS the Spirit. Trinitarianism says the Son of God IS NOT the Spirit. The error can be no plainer than this and the whole doctrine of the Trinity must affirm the Son is NOT the Spirit or it does not and cannot stand. The reader should seriously consider the gravity of the facts here. This is not a minor and inconsequential point. If point number 7 above, or point number 8 above, are false statements, the entire doctrine of the Trinity is proven to be FALSE. And the honest reader will realize there is no escape from that reality."

Courtesy of the Trinity Delusion - I don't agree with everything on this site as I hold to a Binitarian view of the Godhead.