The Foundation of Christianity part 2

Proverbs 8:22-31 (DNKJB)

22 Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

This passage offers a glimpse of the preexistence of Christ with His Father Jehovah prior to the creation of the heavens and earth.

Verse 22, the word "possessed" comes from the hebrew (strongs 7069) word "qanah" which means "to erect, i.e. create by extension, to procure, especially by purchase (causatively, sell); by implication to own: - attain, buy (-er), get, possess, purchase, recover, redeem.

"Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way"

The early Church as well as many of the reformers and the general Protestant churches believed this passage to be about Christ. Ellen White also believed this. With Christ speaking as wisdom, He states that Jehovah possessed (erected, created in the begotten sense, as noted in several passages in the newtestament) Him in the beginning of his way. This clearly teaches that Christ had a beginning as a personality. In the beginning the Word was with God (John 1:1-3, Genesis 1:1, Colossians 1:13-16, Revelation 3:14).

The bible clearly teaches the preexistence of Christ and that He was begotten of the Father in eternity past. What the bible does not specify is exactly how and when in eternity this took place. This is not for us to know, however we do have an example in the bible of one being coming out from another's substance and that is Eve coming out from Adam. It is interesting to note that Jehovah told His Son "Let us make man in our image" before creating Adam and Eve. Eve coming out from Adam's substance could have been a human example of Jesus being begotten from the Father's substance.

Verse 23, "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was". The phrase "Set up" comes from the Hebrew word "nacak" (Hebrew Strongs 5258) which means "to pour out, especially a libation, or to cast (metal); by analogy to anoint a king: - cover, melt, offer, (cause to) pour (out), set (up).

Christ as wisdom says He was poured out from the times of eternity (everlasting), see Micah 5:2. What was Christ poured out from? Well from verse 22 and several new testament passages, we know that Christ was poured out from the Father. This confirms that Christ was begotten from the Father's substance and not just created out of nothing.

Verse 24-29, before there were the depths of waters, mountains, the earth in general, the heavens, the clouds, appointing of the foundations of the earth and sea boundaries etc. , Christ was brought forth. The phrase "brought forth" comes from the Hebrew word "chuwl" which means "to twist or whirl, to writhe in pain, bear, bring forth, form".

Christ was brought forth (formed) from the Father. The word "from" is important here as this denotes that Christ came from the Father's substance and was not created independent of it. Christ came out from and was formed by the Father.

Verse 30, the phrase "brought up" comes from the Hebrew word "amown (Hebrew Strongs 526) and means "skilled, i.e. an architect: - one brought up". This passage could also be rendered "Then I was by him as a master craftsman: and I was daily his delight".

Wisdom here is described as a skilled architect, a master craftsman. This indicates that this passage is about a person and not a mere attribute of the mind (wisdom).

Remember that Christ is called the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 1:24 (KJV)

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

We see from the above passage that Christ is called the power and wisdom of God.

Here are some new testament passages regarding Christ coming forth, out from the Father.

John 16:27-28 (KJV)

27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 3:16 (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Hebrews 1:3-5 (KJV)

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Colossians 1:15 (KJV)

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1 John 4:9 (KJV)

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

1 John 5:1 (KJV)

5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

It is clear from scripture that Jesus is the true literal preexistent divine Son of God.  If Jesus Christ is the foundation of Christianity, then His identity is central to that foundation. Today's Churches rarely teach and preach the Sonship of Christ. By doing this they are laying a foundation not built on truth but rather a foundation built on sand.

 1 John 5:5 (KJV)

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Why do we even wonder why the denominations of Christendom are fallen and when I say "denominations" I include all of them without exception.  There is a solution though and there is hope. Of course, the solution to this problem will not be popular and it will require that these denominations pick up their cross and be reproached by the rest of Christendom.

So what is the solution?

The answer is simple and yet not understood by the mass of Churches throughout Christendom.

Come back to the apostolic belief that Jesus Christ is the literal Son of Jehovah God. It's the Christian that believes this that will overcome the world. The Churches who refuse to come back to this foundational truth will continue to apostasize and lead their flocks to take the mark of the beast.

1 John 1:1-3 (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Verses 1, John is making a definitive  statement concerning the foundational truth of the Christian faith. He states that this foundational truth was heard, seen and handled by himself and the other apostles. They handled the Word of life which is Christ Jesus.

Verse 2, John the beloved disciple of Jesus again emphasizes that him and the apostles have seen and they bear witness of the life that was manifested to them. This life is Jesus and He is eternal life.

John also makes a refrence to Christ preexistence as he says "shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father". So Christ was with the Father prior to be manifested to the apostles. A clear statement of Christ preexistence.

Verse 3, John again makes a declaration of his and the apostles eyewitness account of Jesus. He also says they heard first hand the things Jesus taught. He is declaring this to the recepients of his letter which are fellow Christians. This declaration is a binding statement of faith. John is making this declaration so that these fellow Christians can bear witness in their spirits of what he is saying, so that they can have fellowship with John. Look at the next statement from John the beloved disciple of Jesus:

 "and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ."

This is huge, John is making it clear that he and the apostles fellowship was with two divine beings, the Father and the Son. There is nothing to indicate in this passage that John is describing a role playing relationship of Father-Son but a real one. John is telling his audience that if they want to have fellowship with him, that they need to bear witness to his declaration concerning Christ. What was his declaration concerning Christ? That he is the Word of life, that he is eternal life and that he was with the Father prior to his incarnation. John then offers the sweet hand of fellowship to his readers. John then makes a statement of faith that him and the apostles fellowship was/is with the Father and Son. No trinity, no tri theistic god but rather a real Father and real Son.

The first step for John's audience was to believe his testimony concerning Christ. The next step would be that they would have fellowship with John and the other believers. This fellowship with John would then mean they also have fellowship with the Father and Son as those are the two Divine beings John and other true Christians had fellowship with.

 1 John 1:4-7 (KJV)

4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Continuing in this passage of 1 John chapter 1 we see that John is telling his readers these things so that there joy may be full. The truth about the Father and Son relationship between Jesus and Jehovah should bring us joy. This joy is something a role playing Father-Son relationship can't fully bring. Verse 5 and 6 declare that if we have fellowship with the Father then we will walk in the light and not in darkness. If walk in the light then we will have fellowship with each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. If we walk in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us. Notice how in verse 7 John says "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." Do you see how again John emphasizes Christ Sonship? The Sonship of Christ was a vitally important truth in John's eyes. He leaves no doubt as to Christ identity. He also leaves no doubt that this is not a metaphorical Sonship but rather a real one.

John 11:21-27 (KJV)

21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Verse 21-22, Martha verbalizes her faith in Christ. She believed that if Jesus had been present, her brother would not have died. Even though her brother ended up dying she had faith that whatever Jesus asked the Father it would be granted to him. Martha's faith is an example for us as believers. She didn't doubt Christ even though her brother, whom she loved, died.

Verse 23-24, Jesus tells Martha that Lazarus will rise again. Martha knew that the resurrection of the faithful dead was at the last day and stated her confidence in that. A secret return (rapture) of Jesus prior to the end of all things was a foreign concept to Martha and the Jewish people. Martha shows her faith here by verbalizing her confidence of her brother's eventual resurrection even if it wasn't gonna happen at that specific time. This is an example to us that even if our requests aren't given to us when we desire, we are still to have faith in Christ without wavering.

Verse 25-27, Jesus speaks of his coming resurrection and declares that those who believe in him will live even though they are dead. Jesus is eternal life and those who confess that He is the Son of God have God dwelling in them (1 John 4:15). If we die in Christ, even though we fall asleep we will live again at the first resurrection. We truly won't die but only fall asleep temporarily.  Only those who believe in the resurrection of Christ and that eternal life can only be found in him will live, hence Jesus is the resurrection and the life.

Jesus asks Martha "Believest thou this?"

Look at Martha's response here, if only Christians could have the same faith as Martha. Martha responds "Yea Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world."

This is the same confession that Peter gave in Matthew 16:13-20. This is the same confession that Paul preached in the synagogues in Acts chapter 9 after his Damascus road experience.

Many Christians today lack the faith of Martha. How is this? Because their confession of Christ is not that He is the Son of God, but rather the second member of a trinity god denoting a metaphorical Sonship. Martha made it clear,  her belief in Christ was that he was the Son of God in identity not the eternal Almighty God or "God the Son". Martha and the Jews must have known that the coming Messiah was going to be God's Son as she stated "thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world."

The whole new testament affirms the literal Sonship of Christ and it is this knowledge of who Jesus is that is the foundation of the Christian Church. Will Martha, Peter, Paul and others be a witness against those who deny the literal Sonship of Christ? Don't risk it, but rather confess that Jesus is the Son of God!

John 5:17-44King James Version (KJV)

17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.

34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

The above passage is one of the most powerful there is in regards to the relationship between the Father and the Son.

Verse 17-18, After Jesus tells the Jews that both He and the Father work on the Sabbath to serve and heal man, the Jews were even more aroused to harm Jesus because not only had He violated the Sabbath in their opinion, but He had made himself eqaul with God by stating that God was His Father. This passage is very revealing in that the Jews had an understanding that the coming Messiah would be God's Son and this Sonship would make the Messiah equal with the Father. Remember, the Jews considered themselves son's of God so if Jesus claim of Sonship was only metaphorical they would not have been offended at His claim of Sonship. They properly understood Jesus claim of Sonship as literal hence the statement that they took this as making himself equal with God. The Jews who claimed an adopted Sonship didn't consider themselves eqaul with God.

How is Jesus eqaul with God when other scriptures state that He is subject to God?
Because Jesus is the literal Son of God. His nature (DNA) is fully Divine as much as the Father's nature is. Jesus is equal in divinity to the Father. However in position of headship and authority, Jesus is subject to the Father. A human father begets a human son. God begat a divine Son. God could only beget from his own substance another divine being. A human father will always (in ideal situations-providing health and life circumstances) have headship over his son no matter how old his son gets and no matter how successful his son gets. The son gives his Father this respect and preference. A human father doesn't consider his son less than him just because he is older and has headship over him. A human Father esteems his son eqaul to himself as his son is a part of himself in DNA.

It pleases a human father to esteem his son as eqaul to himself. This doesn't mean the father doesn't have authority or headship over his son it just means that the father knows his son is eqaul to him as a person. Apply this same understanding to God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. It pleases the Father to consider Jesus eqaul with himself as they are both made of the same divine substance. They could only be made of the same substance if they are a true Father and Son. It pleases Jesus to be subject to the Father in authority and headship just as it pleases a human son to give his father preference no matter how successful and old the son becomes.

Verses 19-20, Just as a human son learns from his father's example, Jesus learns from His Father. Jesus examples everything His Father does. Jesus explains his complete dependence on the Father. Jesus speaks of the Father's love for him and refers to himself as "the Son" denoting a real Sonship not a metaphorical one. Everything Jesus has done and still does he learned from the Father. Jesus is not an independent God as some doctrines teach but is dependent completely on the Father for everything.

Verse 21-23, Just as the Father raises the dead so does Jesus. The Father committed all judgment to the Son. We are to honour (revere, honour, value) the Son just as we honour the Father. Some denominations teach that we are not to worship Jesus and only worship the Father. This is absolutely false! The statement that "all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father" clearly teaches that we are to worship Jesus as we also worship the Father. We worship Jesus as the divine Son of God and we worship the Father as the Almighty God. Any worship we give the Son goes to the Father. We can even worship Jesus as our God because He is just that, our Jehovah and our God as Thomas confessed. Even the Father calls Jesus God. Of course, we know the relationship between Jesus and Jehovah and that the Father is the eternal Almighty God and Jesus is the Son of the eternal Almighty God. We should be able to call Jesus God without apology or explanation. We don't honour the Son any less than the Father. Jesus is not a lessor God as some denominations teach but Jesus is fully God and eqaul in divinity with the Father. Jesus was worshipped even as a baby. Angels worship him. What makes us think that we are exempt from worshipping Jesus? Only satan desires to have people think we can't worship Jesus.

If we fail to honour the Son just as equally as we honour the Father then ultimately we don't honour the Father. Jesus was sent by the Father to the earth. He didn't come independently.

Verse 24, Jesus states that those who hear his words and believe on the Father have everlasting life. Jesus didn't speak his own words but was given a commandment from the Father to speak. This shows the oneness of the Father and Son and that they are in complete unity with each other. You can't have one without the other.

Verse 25, the dead in Christ will hear His voice at the second advent. This shows that when we die we fall asleep and are in the grave awaiting the return of Jesus. Our souls do not fly away to heaven at death otherwise the statement, "The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live", makes no sense at all, how do the dead in Christ hear Jesus voice if they are already in heaven with him? This would mean they have split personalities, one in heaven as a disembodied soul and one in the grave as a dead soul.

Also, notice that when Jesus returns at His second advent he identifies himself as "the Son of God". Jesus is never called "God the Son" in the bible. This statement by Jesus also confirms that His identity as the "Son of God" is not a temporary identity that was for his earthly life, but that this is His permanent identity due to the truth that His Sonship is a literal one. Jesus was the Son of God before his incarnation, He was the Son of God during his earthly life and He is the Son of God now and He will be the Son of God when he returns for His saints and He will always be the Son of God.

Verse 26, the Father has life in himself, this is because He is self existent and fully divine and relies on nothing outside of himself but His own life and so gives all life to others. This same self existent life was given to His Son Jesus when he begat him in the ages of eternity. The Son of God possesses the same self existence of the divine nature as the Father. This was given to the Son from the Father when he was begotten from Him in the ages of eternity. The Father begat the Son in the fullness of the divine nature.

Verse 27, the Father has given the Son authority to execute all judgment. The Son having lived as a man in the flesh was tempted in all points like us and thereby can sympathize with our plight. However, the Son also overcame sin and was the spotless Lamb of God. This is why all judgment has been committed to him as he knows what we go through and our struggles so he is just and faithful to forgive. Jesus knows that if we abide in him just as he abode in the Father that we also can overcome sin. Just because Jesus sympathizes with our situation doesn't mean we will get a free pass to live in sin. He expects us to war against the flesh which can only be done by having his Spirit in us which is the hope of glory (Colossians 1:27). When Jesus returns to tread the winepress of his Father's wrath it will be done in justice as the Son of God has experienced what humans have and knew their struggles but also knew they could have overcome. There will be no excuse!

Verse 28-29, again Jesus tells us that the righteous dead will hear His voice at His second advent. This statement here is a clear refutation that when we die we go right to heaven. How will the dead in Christ hear Jesus voice from the grave if they are already in heaven? The hope of early Christians was always the resurrection not going to heaven right away as disembodied souls. Jesus mentions the two resurrections, one to immortal life and one to damnation which is eternal destruction. These two resurrections are a thousand years apart as revealed in the book of the apocalypse (Revelation 20:4-10). There also will be a special resurrection prior to these two resurrections that will also bring forth those who have died under the three angels messages and those who pierced the Son of God.

Verse 30, Jesus tells the Jews that he has total reliance on the Father. Jesus has always sought the will of the Father and learns everything from Him whether by word or action. This is no triune god my friends, this is a real Father-Son relationship. Jesus and the Father are one in every way except of course in "being". Just as a human son, in an ideal relationship, learns everything from his father even up until the day his father passes on so the Son of God learns everything from His Father, the one true God.  Jesus words are God's thoughts made audible. Whatever Jesus executes in action is due to the will of the Father. Remember, Jesus abides in the Father and the Father in him. They are one in Spirit. The Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to him by the Father (Revelation 1:1). Remember also, the counsel of peace is between both the Father and Son (Zechariah 6:13). Trying to seperate the Father from the Son is unscriptural, what I mean by seperating them is making the Son as a lessor God. Also, trying to confound them into one being is false as is saying that the Son is co eqaul in authority with the Father.

The Son is equal with the Father in divinity however he is subject to the Father in authority. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 makes it clear that the Father put all things under the Son however the Father himself is excepted from this. There is a perfect order with the Father and the Son as it is in an earthly Father-Son relationship. The Father and Son in heaven have a perfect theocratic order and they have a perfect love for each other and it pleases the Son to be subject to the Father and it pleases the Father that the Son is eqaul in divinity with Him. The Father sent His Son as the perfect representation of Himself. Only a true Son of God could perfectly represent the Father in heaven.

Verse 31-32, Jesus declares the truth of the Father's witness. Jesus said that he doesn't witness of himself. Jesus said that if he did witness of himself it wouldn't be true. Jesus knew the witness of himself was true, because it was the Father who bore witness of him.

John 17:3 (KJV)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

It was the only true God that bore witness of Jesus.

1 John 5:20 (KJV)

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Again, it is the Father that is true. All truth comes from the source, which is the Father. When the Father bears witness of anything we know it's the truth because the Father is true and the source of all truth. We know Jesusis the true witness as His Father bore witness of him. Twice the Father audibly declared Jesus to be His Son. The Father is incapable of lying. Do we believe the one that is true or do we believe men, Pastor's and theologians who are very capable of lying?

Matthew 3:17 (KJV)

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 17:4-6 (KJV)

4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

Here it is the declaration twice from the Father about Jesus Christ. This declaration is clearly in regards to Jesus being His Son. This is the witness of the Father in regards to Jesus.

Verse 33-36, John the Baptist bore witness of Jesus and it was the truth. However, Jesus didn't need the witness of John but John bore witness of Jesus that man might be saved. John was a shining light that pointed to a greater light which is the Son of God. The works that Jesus did were given to him by the Father. Remember, Jesus could fo nothing of himself. These works bore witness that Jesus is the Son of God and that he was sent by the Father.

Verse 37, the Father sent Jesus and bore witness of him. The Father's witness was that Jesus is His Son. According to Jesus, the Father has a shape. This contradicts the false trinity doctrine that teaches that the Father has no shape or body parts and is invisible even in heaven.  Jesus says that they have also not heard the Father's voice in addition to not seeing His shape. The "Jehovah" who appeared in the old testament was the preexistent Messiah. Remember, Jesus is the Word of God so when the Father spoke in the old testament it was through His Word Jehoshua.